This is about cultural expectations when buying kimono online. It is also a gripe about people who think they're exempt from engaging with another culture when buying cultural items from another country.
I found a
new-ish seller on Ebay who sells "estate sale"-style lots of kimono. He works directly with those looking to sell them, just as it happens with auction houses in America. These lots are of groups of like-items, so there may be a mix of male and female garments, summer and awase (three season) items, etc. which may not be worn together when creating a traditional outfit. These items are often sold on a secondhand market for adding to a collection already, crafting, or for informal mixing with yofuku (American or 'European style' clothing.)
Americans in some of my kimono groups have had... Issues with these kind of kimono sales. Some of it is a divide in cultural expectations. Some of it is Americans being Especially American, and why we are sometimes so fucking hard to deal with outside of America.
in b4 "but I'm american and I don't act like this!" good for you!!! here's a cookie! #NotAllAmericans
American attitudes as a culture It's because we want allll the things but do not want to PAY for them. This is not a new trend. It has been around for at least 50 years. It is literally the reason so many Americans were enthusiastic about starting factories or locating offices in China: we get more and pay less.
Especially problematic, the worst offenders feel like they deserve "better customer experience" (ie, getting their way) and do not consider others' needs at all. They blame the seller if the seller does not cater to them, because the seller is an asshole and shouldn't be doing business. They blame the seller if the seller does cater to them because the seller shouldn't be selling if they're going to lose money/time/whatever on the deal. In the end, these people view the problem as the Seller's Fault.
The Cultural DivideLots of kimono like these are often sold with little description and few measurements. The items themselves may not be worth a lot on the resale market in Japan. In Japan, many secondhand kimono are purchased for fabric for crafting, for making new things like bags or hats, or for brief outings.

In Japan, many places give discounts if you wear a kimono for a week or so, especially during festivals and things like this. Most people do not wear kimono very often. Some never wear them at all. It has not been "common" to wear kimono, except for yukata, in probably 60 years. Yukata are the cotton kimono reserved for summer festivals and certain events, or for explicit use at onsen, hot springs. It is easy to tell the visual difference between the two when you see them. It is expected that, just like in America, you can get secondhand kimono at many pop-up temple sales (like community garage sales) or thrift stores for dirt-cheap but the quality may also not be great. Most in the past 50 years are synthetic or semi-synthetic. Survivor bias means that very small or unusual sizes will last forever but normal sizes get worn out fast, so something that fits you better may have more small damages. In person, there as here, there are no measurements attached to these garments. Bring your own measuring tape and flashlight.
Online, kimono shopping is very much expected to be a similar experience: most people are not buying something to fit them perfectly or to be in excellent condition at very low prices. Many people are not expecting to buy a wearable garment at all, or are buying something for a few hours, take some photos, be done.
Just like here, it is expected that you get what you pay for.
If you want a secondhand kimono made of good quality materials, or that is fairly new, or that fits well (or all three!) you will pay a lot more money. In Japan, that is easily hundreds of dollars USD, on the secondhand market. In some districts, like Kyoto area, you will pay a lot more.
butAmericans buy kimono almost entirely online. We have to. There are extremely few in-person opportunities in this country. This means kimono are a luxury item. Yes, even the cotton yukata from 20 years ago. That's one of those facts I need to smack people in the head with until they internalize it.
Online, the expectation is that every single detail of the item will be shown, up close, in photos which are taken with specific lighting, in extremely specific ways. We demand measurements of all aspects of the item. Sometimes this is necessary, such as buying a desk, or pet stairs, or a brand-new piece of clothing.
Moreover, we expect that the seller (whoever it is, in specific as in one person, or in general, like the business) is being paid something to do this. Probably hourly.
That is NOT how small businesses work, not even in America. Most people have no fucking clue. When I ran my own shop on Etsy, I easily worked 80+ hours a week and STILL needed to hire help. Did I get mommy and daddy money to help me start up or pay others? lol no. Did I get grants to do anything? lol no. People think those are magically easy to get, and they are absolutely NOT. Plus, no one is going to get a grant for a freaking pagan shop, Karen, go back to huffing DoTerra oils. My story is not uncommon. It is pretty well-known that if you are self-funding a startup, even "just" on ebay or etsy, this is your reality. In fact, it is well-known that you may LOSE money for up to the first two years before your name gets established enough to turn a $1 profit. That's why most people don't do it at all. We do not have the money to lose. It is safer and more profitable to work part-time at 7-11.
I can assure you, the guy selling kimono on ebay, who might have like 2-3 people helping list stuff, is not getting endless cash for the extra effort of making listings to American expectations. The owner might be spending what could/should be retirement money until a decent return is made.
americans are entitled as shit. a lot of us just don't THINK we are.Again, what few Americans seem to appreciate, or even understand, is that it takes hours of labour to create the kind of sales experience they want. That labour is worth money and SHOULD cost money.
If someone posts general photos and little description, in a culture that expects little when buying secondhand garments from an auction site, it will cost less money to buy most items. Less effort = low price. That is very normal for Japanese expectations. This is a Japanese seller, in Japan, who is natively Japanese, selling traditional Japanese items. We could be so lucky that this person went through the extra effort to do their best on putting all details of their listings in English. (but nope! Americans demand perfect English before someone dares speak to us, too!)
If someone posts a dozen photos with great lighting and makes effort to identify flaws, describing them in text, editing photos, taking measurements, and telling about individual items, that means EACH ITEM can take 1-2 HOURS to post. That labour should be paid for. More detail = higher price.
If you want a kimono that you "know" is only about $20USD in Japan, but it's listed for $50 + SH, and $20 including shipping is the most you want to pay... move to Japan.
People get pissed off when I tell them that, but I cannot be nice about this anymore.
You are basically telling me that you do not respect other people. You do not respect their labour or the part of their lives they traded for making that listing. You do not understand nor do you care about the costs of running a business, what Ebay charges, what your equipment costs, etc. You are telling me that you want to buy an item which cannot be gotten easily or readily in America, and pay almost nothing for it.
You want something really cool for less than free.
If you cannot afford $50 + SH (or whatever it is) you should not buy that kimono. It is not food or shelter. It makes people very unhappy and angry when I tell them this. Don't bitch at me about it. Y'all need to be aware of your audience. For example, do not ever tell the very, very ill disabled person who lived in their car WHILE working TWO jobs, that not being able to afford a fucking kimono is some major personal affront. I do not care. Is the US economic system wrecked? Yes, it is. I would know, wouldn't I. AT THE SAME TIME, is it some other person's fault that a luxury item is not in your budget? Yeah, but probably not the one you're upset with. Now stop taking it out on people. Unless they own Amazon, Microsoft, Proctor + Gamble, or some other giant corporation that is underpaying their employees, chances are, they have nothing to do with you and your resources. Stop making small business owners feel guilty in an attempt to get a discount. WE need to live, too.
which reminds me, shipping is a BITCH compared to American expectationsAmericans expect free shipping or dirt-low shipping on everything. Someone bitched this week that THIS kimono seller has $5 shipping. All these OTHER kimono sellers who charge $30 an item are RIDICULOUS.
no, that $5 shipping is drastically, artificially low. the listings of theirs that start at $1 often go much higher, and when they don't, look at the full shop. Most items are actually $40-200. That is because those $5 shipping items with a $1 starting bid are "loss leaders." Also, this is a shop well-known (to buyers) to have very inaccurate measurements, which may list an item as silk when it is a semi-decent synthetic, which may have an item covered in very pale age stains but which may not show it in photos. YES, *that is the trade-off with very weirdly cheap items.* So stop getting angry about it.
I get it, the anger comes from an American reading a description that is presumably there for a reason, and then the description didn't match the thing. Yeah, I know. For lots of items, I would also have a problem. Certain categories of items are an exception. Buying kimono at weirdly low prices is one of them. I'm with Judge Judy: "If it doesn't make sense, it's NOT. TRUE." Correct. Those prices do not make sense. Something isn't true. The shop is real. It has been established for years. Ah, in context, that description information is often very hit or miss. I've had some very good experiences with buying from that shop- but also, I have a wide margin of "error" expected.
$5 shipping is fucking weird. This is likely a textile mill taking advantage of some kind of tax breaks. I don't know enough about Japanese law to say. But I DO know that Japanese shipping is extremely high. It's a tiny little island country, smaller than California, literally on the other side of the world from me. Shipping will be $$$.
This week, I paid $30 in shipping for a mid-range postage option on a handful of embroidery thread. Yes, that is right: less than a quarter pound, or 1/8th kilo, cost me $30 USD.
The cheaper option was ~$20, which did not have any kind of real tracking in case of loss. There was a $15 option by sea mail, which can take several weeks, no tracking of any kind, and often is damaged in transit. This is the cost for ~.15kg.
A single modern kimono can easily weigh 2lbs, or 1kg. A single fukuro obi can be 2lbs; a little lighter for a less-formal nagoya style, or 1lb/.25kg for a hanhaba, often the cheapest costume-quality synthetic kind.
People who buy kimono from Japan need to know and respect that.
Americans expect free shipping. Outright. No matter HOW heavy or fragile an item. No matter who is comes from. No matter if it's a big business on Amazon or some guy selling old postcards from his garage.
(on a side note, I paid almost $17 to ship one kimono from Florida to another nearby state via Priority Mail, which has insurance and tracking. via Standard Mail it still would have been ~$12. And some of you complain that a heavier kimono... from literally the other side of the planet... from a tiny little island with not that many resources, actually... should get here to Florida for $5-10. what drugs are you on.)
This was a problem almost 5 years ago on Etsy- the great push for us small artisans to act like we have the giant shipping deals that Chinese factories do. Etsy de-prioritized shops that did NOT have free shipping enabled, while also allowing actual factories to spring up. A regular person, or a small business of all of 5 people, cannot offer free shipping in the vast majority of cases. Etsy suggested hiding a small shipping fee in the price of the item. First of all, no. Second of all, that's not fair for customers. If you buy one item and it costs me $4 to ship to Virginia but $6 to ship to Oregon, I have to HOPE that I sell enough to balance that out. AND if you buy more than one item with "free" shipping, that means you might have just paid $10 shipping for something that would only cost $5 to ship. No matter what, Etsy racks up money by charging me fees. Clearly I did not switch to "free" shipping. And I got shoved down the search for it.
In China, there are (or were? idk what Drumpf is doing this week) huge trade agreements. Shipping something here is free or so cheap on our exchange rate, it's easier for these factories to just include it in the cost. And so much of our stuff has free shipping now, it's an expectation.
Here's the thing: MOST COUNTRIES do NOT have "free" shipping agreements. MOST. OF. THEM. MOST COUNTRIES also do not have artificially cheap postage. They are small countries and do not have the sheer tax revenue or wealth that America does. We *could* spend less money on bombing children in other countries and maybe trade that for a post office that doesn't run almost as bad as the one my dad used in Bolivia? But... lol naaahhh
It's easier to get mad at local sellers on Craigslist in the US, and the 50-something year old woman in Japan, for the audacity to *charge for postage.* And yeah, I've gotten a lot of messages for my own shop, demanding that I give free shipping Or Else. Or else, they'll report me (a real problem on Etsy, where they can just close your whole shop,) or else they'll leave bad reviews (this category already purchased and thinks I will give them a refund because it shows if I cancel too many orders,) whatever. No, I don't have to give free shipping. USPS does not give me a discount for selling 200 items a year. There is no "free shipping with FL state tax ID." That is not how anything works.
When you demand free shipping on kimono, or anything from Japan, you tell me something. Either:
- you believe things should be free because you are special and American
- you don't understand how it works when a seller hides the shipping price in an item and says "free shipping."
When you demand super cheap kimono with top-quality listings AND free shipping, you are telling me that you do not give one single fuck about the other person and have no respect for them, their labour, their time, or their products. You actually have no respect at all. Don't try to hide that ugliness. Do something to become less shitty. You have choices. You can just practice choosing something else.